A triumphant Rob Kaman.
Mike Miles and Rob Kaman square off in a sparring session.
Mike Miles and Rob Kaman pose for the camera. (2000)
A note to Mike Miles and Gym from Rob Kaman. (2000)
Having a laugh in front of the camera. (2004)
I was very excited about this interview. I have long admired Kaman for his fighting ability. In the early 1980's, with Urquidez and Wallace being the big names, I heard so much about Kaman that I was perplexed that no other fighters in North America took him seriously. He soon proved me right and was far too strong for any North American fighters. However, due to a personal problem he had to take a short hiatus from the sport, and I believe this resulted in hurting his chance for early notoriety in North America. After he straightened out his problem he went on to conquer the Kickboxing world and defeat the toughest competition in Thailand and Europe. Respected and well-known throughout Europe, the Orient and finally now being paid his due in North America, he is now referred to as a "Living Legend". Many of my peers and instructors have criticized him as not being a 'thinking' fighter. I have long disagreed and found Kaman to be an intelligent fighter who is almost always one step ahead of his competition. For awhile my teacher in Thailand had wanted me to fight "The Dutchman", but I never really was interested. Kaman is in a league of his own. Finally, the proper pronunciation of his name is "Kah-mahn", not "Kay-man" like so many Americans call him. MIKE MILES
Mike Miles: When did you first start training in the Martial Arts?
Rob Kaman: It was in 1976 at the age of 16.
Mike Miles: How old are you now?
Rob Kaman: I am 35 years old.
Mike Miles: Did you do any other style/s before you started fighting in Muay Thai?
Rob Kaman: I started with Pentjak Silat and studied this art until 1978.
Mike Miles: Who or what inspired you Kickboxing or Muay Thai?
Rob Kaman: It was a complete and total art or sport. It requires proficiency in the technical, physical and conditioning aspects. I was then witness to one of the very first Kickboxing cards in Holland. I was impressed by Dutch fighter Lucien Carbin who fought on this card. We made fast friends and he took me to the Mejiro Gym where I started training under Jan Plas.
Mike Miles: When did you have your first fight, against who, under what rules and what was the outcome?
Rob Kaman: In September 1978 I fought Carilon who was the Boxe Francaise-Savate Champion. The bout was in Paris, France and I lost on points. Looking back at it I am glad I lost this fight because it brought me down to earth and taught me it takes a lot more hard work and training to become a true champion.
Mike Miles: Have you ever fought in North America?
Rob Kaman: Just once when I beat Moncayo in our rematch encounter in Florida. I have trained over there with Blinky (Rodrigues) and Benny (Urquidez).
Mike Miles: What is your present fight record?
Rob Kaman: I have 98 wins, 9 losses and 0 draws. I have 78 wins by knockout.
Mike Miles: What are the titles you have won?
Rob Kaman: I have won titles for all the major sanctioning bodies including the W.K.A., I.S.K.A., I.K.B.F., and Thai Boxing (the I.M.F.).
Mike Miles: Which of your fights do you feel are the most noteworthy?
Rob Kaman: There are so many that I do not find it easy to pick one or even several of them.
Mike Miles: Who was the toughest opponent you have ever met in the ring?
Rob Kaman: I think my fights against Thai fighter Cheungpuek Kiatsongrit were the toughest. He has a very hard left round kick. The first time we fought I lost on points. the second time we fought I won by knocking him out in the fifth round. The third time we fought I lost on points in Bangkok. The fourth time was at the Japanese K-2 where I let him beat me.
Mike Miles: : Let him beat you? You and Hoost were favoured to win that tournament (Hoost did).
Rob Kaman: This was at the Japanese K-2 Grand Prix. My first draw was against Cheungpuek. I sustained a nasty cut in my leg early in this bout. I knew that even if I won this bout, my next opponent would be Tasis Petridis, who could also hurt me. Even if I had reached the finals, I knew I would not be in condition to win against Hoost. Therefore after the cut, I let Cheungpuek win.
Mike Miles: Who are your fight losses to?
Rob Kaman: Carilon, Muniz, Krongsak, Cheungpuek, Lakchart, Peter Smit and Rick Roufus.
Mike Miles: Would you like to rematch any of these guys and if so, in the near future?
Rob Kaman: I would love to rematch Rick Roufus but under my rules allowing leg kicks. I have been handicapped fighting him under his rules, so he should try my rules!
Mike Miles: I remember your first bout with Roufus. This was when Theriault pulled out of your scheduled encounter.
Rob Kaman: : I was supposed to fight Jean Yves Theriault in Paris. About two weeks before the bout, the promoter called me and told me that Theriault had pulled out due to a broken hand. I was very disappointed. I stopped training because I felt I would be fighting another of those wimpy American Full Contact fighters. I even taught a seminar in Italy days before the bout took place. Roufus turned out to be no wimp and we had a twelve round war. I would like to say that in the fourth round I was on the verge of knocking him out when the bell rang at 1 minute and 15 seconds into the round. All the other rounds were two minutes, except the fourth. Isn't that a little strange?
Mike Miles: No kidding? In your second encounter he knocked you out though.
Rob Kaman: This was due to my own stupidity. Normally my game plan is to irritate, let my opponent come and look for openings in his defense. In the second encounter I was too keen and got careless. I took the fight to him and suffered the consequences.
Mike Miles: What about Rick Roufus and the rematch with leg kicks rumour? People in his camp state the rematch between you and him allowing leg kicks has never been agreed upon and never will be. Any response to this?
Rob Kaman: All I can say is that Rick Roufus is NOT an all round Champion fighter. He can only fight under one set of rules (Full Contact) , where as I can fight all styles and I am an all round Champion.
Mike Miles: You are the first fighter in history to sit on a legitimate Muay Thai, Full Contact and Kickboxing World Champion Title at the same time. How do you feel about this?
Rob Kaman: Great! I think many champions hide behind their organizations for protection. I wanted to prove I was an all around fighter and could fight under all the rules.
Mike Miles: Lately, you have received much criticism by people stating you are old or washed up. Yet you won the French K-2. Is there any validity in the people's criticism of you? Do you feel you are slipping?
Rob Kaman: Tell me who is not slipping competitively at the age of 35 years? I still manage to stay at a highly respected and competitive level. To respond to the criticism, I am NOT washed up. 98 wins to 9 losses, everybody loses once in awhile.
Mike Miles: You have lived and trained in Thailand. Which camp(s) have you trained at while in Thailand?
Rob Kaman: I trained in Pattaya city at the Sidyodtong-Payakarun Camp. I do not like Bangkok, but Pattaya is close to the ocean, so I like staying there. I also get along great with Acharn Yodtong.
Mike Miles: You made this camp very famous for foreign fighters to visit. It is now regularly visited by Europeans and a few North American fighters. Out of curiosity, why have you only trained at this camp?
Rob Kaman: Like I said the camp is far away from the hustle and bustle of Bangkok. It was very near to where I was staying when I first came to Thailand. The other reason for staying there is that I do not like change in my program. It has become a place where I am very familiar with the people and the surroundings.
Mike Miles: How many times have you fought in Thailand?
Rob Kaman: I have fought in Thailand only 4 times. This is due to my weight.
Mike Miles: How many Thai's have you fought and what were the outcomes?
Rob Kaman: I have fought 8 Thai's but I can not remember all of their names. I lost to Krongsak once. I beat Sittisak once. I fought Lakchart and won twice and lost once. I defeated Surdow and also Payab. I have already mentioned about Cheungpuek and I am sorry I can not remember the other names.
Mike Miles: What do you think of the criticism that if you do not win by knockout in Thailand you will not win?
Rob Kaman: This is because they have a different scoring system. Punches do not score. A high priority is given to kicks when judges score. It is very frustrating!
Mike Miles: Why are you no longer living and training in Thailand?
Rob Kaman: I think my stay in Thailand had a negative influence on my career.
Mike Miles: How's that?
Rob Kaman: The training there is very monotonous (constantly Thai Pads), I did not have any professional support, no trainer as I had in Holland. No sparring partners were available to me in my weight class either.
Mike Miles: Does this explain that since 1978 you were never counted out yet in 1989/1990 you were counted out twice?
Rob Kaman: At that point in my career I had a large amount of fights. One after another without the proper preparation. This factor, combined with the tropical Thai climate does not allow you to recuperate easily. It actually put me in worse condition than when I was in Holland. All of these negative elements came together for the first time when I fought Jan Wessels in 1989. I was also the promoter of that event and I was exhausted even before the fight started.
The other bout was against Peter Smit in 1990 in Japan. I should not have gone through with that fight. My mind was with my girlfriend who was about to give birth to our baby. I had to leave her in the hospital for this fight and I had to take sleeping pills to sleep.
Mike Miles: Who in your opinion is the best Thai boxer (from Thailand) today? Do you have a favorite Thai fighter?
Rob Kaman: My favorite fighter from earlier in my career was Samart Payakarun. He was the main fighter at the camp in Pattaya when I first started training there. At this moment in time I do not follow the Thai fighters, so I do not have a present favorite.
Mike Miles: What do you think of the current "K" circuit? Any criticisms or suggestions of the event?
Rob Kaman: They are alright. A lot of this event relies on luck for the competitors. You have to be lucky in your draws to be in the right position to make it to the finals. Sometimes I wonder how fair the draws really are. I do not want to go any further than this.
Mike Miles: The newest Martial Arts fad is the current "Free fight Gala". Your former sparring partner Bob Schrijber fought in one. What do you think of these events?
Rob Kaman: You have free fights and cage fights in North America. Which ones?
Mike Miles: The Ultimate Fighting Championsh
Rob Kaman: Hmm. When Bob fought he lost two times by being strangled out. They are now trying to promote these events by video. Very few spectators come and watch these events.
Mike Miles: Would you ever fight in one?
Rob Kaman: They asked me already to fight in one in October (1995). They will have two pools, one for Kickboxing and one for Grappling. The winners in each pool will square off at the end for the money. I declined because of my contract in France. When I end my career and if the purse is good, because now they do not offer enough. There is too big of a risk for injuries that can bother a fighter for the rest of their lives. I do not see it as a sport! It is only attractive for the promoters and the money if you are a fighter.
Mike Miles: Getting back to Kickboxing, what do you think about all the different sanctioning bodies and the multitude of titles each one sanctions? Which bodies do you feel are legitimate and which type of fighting (Muay Thai, Kickboxing, Full Contact, Savate) do you think they should sanction if any?
Rob Kaman: I think it is all bullshit. I think there should be one sanctioning body for professionals and one title for each different fighting style. Unfortunately, we have not learned by watching professional boxing. It is also going through the same problems with multiple Champions and sanctioning bodies. I can not foresee a solution in the near future for Kickboxing.
Mike Miles: Are there any fighters from over here in North America who you think are good? Are there any fighters over here who you would like to fight?
Rob Kaman: We do not hear about North American fighters in Europe or in Thailand. The ones I have heard about, I have fought (Theriault, Roufus, Robinson, Moncayo, MacFadden). I feel North America has much catching up to do. I would have liked to fight Dale Cook and there was talk about it for awhile in Japan. However, I do not feel he has really fought any notable fighters other than Cheungpuek Kiatsongrit. Cheungpuek knocked Dale out in the second round.
Mike Miles: Let's look at the European fighters. Ernesto Hoost is now winning big tournaments and big fights. He knocked Rick Roufus out. Yet you have defeated Hoost twice and lost to Roufus twice. Has Hoost improved that much and do you think he would be able to fare any better as a fighter against you now?
Rob Kaman: When Hoost beat Roufus it was under Full Contact rules. When Hoost fought me it was under international Muay Thai rules (not allowing elbows). When Hoost and I tangled, we were at our absolute best physically, mentally and emotionally. The bouts could have went either way, but I won. Hoost has improved but I do not know if he would do any better against me.
Mike Miles: Will you two ever fight again?
Rob Kaman: I did receive an offer to fight Hoost in Japan but it was on three weeks notice so I declined. If I was going to fight him, I would want to be prepared. Now it is now a different period in time for both of us and I am older. It is late in my career and I doubt we will ever fight again as I will be ending my career soon.
Mike Miles: : Are there any other fighters in Holland that you think are very good? France? England? Anywhere else in Europe?
Rob Kaman: There are so many up and coming fighters, that it is difficult to think of any one person right now.
Mike Miles: Any good fighters in Japan or other parts of the Orient (besides Thailand) that you think are good?
Rob Kaman: Yes, I do. However there are very few of them compared to Europe.
Mike Miles: You never fought Don Wilson. Did you ever want to fight him? I know you did a movie together, but how do you think you would have done against Wilson in a fight?
Rob Kaman: I never fought Don. I have always wanted to fight him. If we fought my only concern would be under which rules the fight would be. I respect him because he is a smart fighter and even though he is not a Muay Thai stylist he has fought Thai's.
Mike Miles: There are rumours that he wants to come back as a fighter. Any thoughts on this?
Rob Kaman: I am puzzled to hear he may be coming back. Don if you are reading this, "Why?". As I think about it, it would be a great retirement match for both of us.
Mike Miles: Have you ever fought using elbows? How do you feel about using elbows when you fight?
Rob Kaman: All of my fights with the Thais allowed the use of elbows. I like using elbows because it is just like any other technique other than it can leave nasty scars.
Mike Miles: Is there anything you would like to see changed?
Rob Kaman: I would like to see one set of fighting rules for all fighters, either with or without elbows, but one!
Mike Miles: Theriault was talking about his retirement fight and having you as a possible opponent (again)? How do you feel about this?
Rob Kaman: If Jean Yves will accept my weight, I do not see a problem fighting him again. I have been going up in weight to make money. I am presently at 89 kilos. I think this is about 10 kilos over Theriault's weight now.
Mike Miles: When you fought and stopped Theriault on June 20, 1992 (he would not come out for the next round). Were you awarded the World Title Belt by the sanctioning body - I.S.K.A.? I never saw your name in any ratings by this sanctioning body. Did they give you the title or not?
Rob Kaman: No, they never gave me the official Title. I.S.K.A. did not give me an official belt and my title was stripped the same day as the fight (when I won it) because I could not make the weight anymore. I.S.K.A. sanctioned the event, agreed to my weight, let me fight and after I won they said I was too heavy for the division. This was bullshit!
Mike Miles: What about Roufus and Hoost? Both those guys were over the weight limit and they still gave the title to Hoost.
Rob Kaman: Just politics again.
Mike Miles: Yet, you fought on an I.S.K.A. card later in the year when you fought Marek Piotrovski.
Rob Kaman: The money was good and Marek had made a name for himself when he defeated Don Wilson. I won Marek's I.S.K.A. Kickboxing Title on November 23, 1992 by knocking him out. The I.S.K.A. gave me a World Title Belt for this fight much later though. It came so late that I was not sure if they reconsidered their decision and give it to me for the Theriault fight or if they gave it to me for the Piotrovski bout!
Mike Miles: Unfortunately, there has been a lot of politics in this sport.
Rob Kaman: It is not fair and it hurts the sport!
Mike Miles: You have fought Blinky Rodrigues and stopped him. He was a very respected fighter in North America. He is the only fighter to have ever knocked Theriault out cold (in the first round with a vicious left hook) and also brought Bill "Superfoot" Wallace on the verge of defeat. You have been criticised by North American Kickboxers for destroying his knee. How do you feel about this?
Rob Kaman: Blinky is a wonderful person. I do not think he blames me for his knee. I have spoke to him many times after the fight and he has never said a thing to me about it. Incidently, by defeating Blinky in the second round (with leg kicks), I was given my first shot at a W.K.A. World Title against John Moncayo.
Mike Miles: He was a tough but awkward fighter. You fought him twice. What were the outcomes?
Rob Kaman: In the first encounter (September 23, 1983) I won by stopping him out in the third round with leg kicks. Moncayo spoke in interviews that he had "lent" me the title. In the second encounter I knocked him out with a punch in the third round of the fight, and proved I deserved the title. When I won the first bout, it was the first time in history that a European became a World Champion in the sport of Kickboxing.
Mike Miles: What are your favourite fight techniques?
Rob Kaman: Now, I have so many but earlier in my career it was definitely my leg kicks.
Mike Miles: What technique are you known for?
Rob Kaman: Again, my leg kicks!
Mike Miles: If you have one, who's is your favourite fighter/s?
Rob Kaman: I like Samart Payakarun (from Thailand), Fujiwara (from Japan) and Ramon Dekker (from Holland). Samart is the same generation fighter as me. We are good friends. He is a great fighter with unsurpassed timing. He used all his skills well and was also a very good boxer. He was a total fighter. Most of the Thai fighters are real tough and not very smart fighters. They are action/reaction fighters meaning they kick and then they counter. Fujiwara has the same skills as Samart. In regards to Ramon I have followed him from the beginning of his career. I think he is finally getting back on track as a fighter. He had too many hard fights in a row, and too many scars on the face from elbows. As a fighter he is no longer the animal he was and is hesitating now when he fights. He also is getting too heavy for his size.
Mike Miles: What is your opinion about Full Contact Karate (without kicks to the legs)?
Rob Kaman: I think it is an incomplete form of fighting. It relies almost solely on good boxing technique.
Mike Miles: What is your opinion on kickboxing (with kicks to the legs)?
Rob Kaman: This fighting is a step in the right direction (towards Muay Thai).
Mike Miles: What is your opinion on modified Muay Thai (without elbow attacks and knees to the head)?
Rob Kaman: This is the real thing when it comes to fighting!
Mike Miles: Are you a full time fighter or do you work?
Rob Kaman: I am a full time fighter.
Mike Miles: Do you make good money fighting? What do you think can be done to make kickboxing a better paying sport?
Rob Kaman: Not enough when compared to professional boxing. The sport needs more television behind it to give it greater exposure and it needs one set of rules so the spectators can understand the game. The K tournaments offer good pay, but there is a lot of risk.
Mike Miles: What do you want to do after you retire?
Rob Kaman: I want to stay in the sport, but at this moment in time I do not know what direction I will go for sure. I would like to promote good fighters. I do not have the energy anymore to run a camp.
Mike Miles: What have you gained from fighting?
Rob Kaman: Mentally I have gained a lot. Financially enough to survive and I have also put a little aside.
Mike Miles: How much longer do you want to fight?
Rob Kaman: I have said so many times that "next year" I will retire, but I never have. Finally I think I have reached that point now.
Mike Miles: Who do you desire the most to fight?
Rob Kaman: No one comes to mind other than Rick Roufus allowing leg kicks in the bout. That one excites me.
Mike Miles: I have heard from people involved in his camp, that he has retired from the Full Contact scene and wants to pursue Professional Boxing. How do you feel about this?
Rob Kaman: I do not feel he will be capable of being a top boxer. I think he is too far into his career to make the change of styles. He is in his late twenties and I think he is too old to become a serious contender in that sport!
Mike Miles: Are you happy with everything you have achieved?
Rob Kaman: Yes. I think if everyone calls me a "Living Legend", I can be proud of what I have achieved. I have also been called the most well known kickboxer in the world.
Mike Miles: Anything you would like to add to the article?
Rob Kaman: I hope that Kickboxing will be better paid in the future for the athletes. Hopefully the sanctioning bodies will get their acts together and allow the sport to gain more coverage in the media like boxing.
Mike Miles: When was your last fight and what was the outcome?
Rob Kaman: My last fight was on June 24th against Australia's Tasis "Tosca" Petridis. The bout was a draw. A head butt from Petridis ended the fight early with me needing 7 stitches over my left eye. It was a bad cut.
Mike Miles: Who is your next fight scheduled against?
Rob Kaman: I am scheduled for a rematch with Petridis in November of this year.
Mike Miles: How many fights do you have booked for 1995?
Rob Kaman: The bout with Petridis ends my contract with France's CANAL +. After that fight I will see what I will do with my career.
Mike Miles: Thank you for your time and this interesting discussion. I wish you all the best in the future and I hope to see you soon.
Rob Kaman: Thanks Mike. Take care.